Photophobia

Asalamu Alaikum Abdullah,

The first half was very funny lol.

I agree that one of the reasons might be that these Arab girls (particularly Saudis) come to a private event without wearing hijab/niqab as they would usually do out in public. If their families are religious, they may not approve of this if its known to them. So if a picture is taken of them they get scared that if their picture gets published, one of their family members or friend(s) of the family will recognize them and it brings shame on her and the family for not wearing hijab/niqab around unrelated people.

Another reason is the fear of their pictures possibly being used to blackmail them into an illicit relationship. Lately this is becoming a phenomenon in Saudi Arabia.

Lastly, maybe it just boils down to simply getting their individual acquiescence before snapping their pictures. Make them feel like a VIP lol. Seriously, this may be a tedious task and takes up more of your time but more feasible than reviewing 100+ pictures trying to remember which face to delete.

Hope that helps insha'Allah!

Dude, you think that's hard? Imagine taking pictures of a saudi wedding – at the female section! You'll love how easy your job is again.

I agree with Tara.

Saudis are a pain around cameras in general, even in public places or places i have a permit to shoot. You are so lucky that they are nice girls, because Saudi men think they can scream me out of my job, since i am a girl and i don't look like i have a tribe to fend for me. They are rude, loud and with a severe inferiority complex.

They irk me greatly, is it obvious?

you know what you should do, but like i can blur out your face if you like… cuz taking away ALL of the pictures is just ridiculous. who told em to come to a public event where they know people will be taking pictures of them!? i don't get these girls!!!

This is fascinating and very different in some ways yet similar to Moroccan behaviour about photography or videography at weddings. In general Moroccans love having their photos taken, and there is none of the North American “Oh don't take my picture, I look awful, my hair is mess, I feel fat today, etc”. At a wedding, photos are taken as people enter and go through the receiving line. The bride and groom pose on a dais for their photo to be taken with guests who go up in couples or groups of family and friends. The official photographer, the family's requested photographers, and anyone with a camera takes photos.

Now the weird part is the obsession with thinking that their videos and photos will be pirated, and shown in the far corners of the Moroccan diaspora, and then…? Someone will talk badly about them, or WORSE!!!! copy their wedding dresses, flowers, style, whatever.

The last wedding I attended the photographer took my photo non-stop. At first it wasn't obvious because I didn't know how many photos he was taking of others. He then sold the photos he had taken at a small table toward the end of the reception. He had a whole pile of ones of me which he wanted to sell as a group, not individually. I wanted to select a COUPLE of photos but he did the pretending not to speak French thing, repeatedly showing the group, and then I didn't want to buy any–which turned into a cross-cultural, this is a family wedding, thing, which means the hub bought all of them! Of course I was only so fascinating because I was the only European woman there and he probably thought I would pay more easily, and that it was my first time in Moroccan evening wear. Verrry annoying.

However, your Saudi refuseniks must be more annoying. All I can think of is that you make sure the person who asked for your services inform the guests. It reminds me a little of being at the ballet and having an announcement made that the CBC television station would be filming the ballet and panning the audience just after intermission–time to put yourself together, not be caught on camera with…a…non-conjugal companion. Maybe there is a photographer's duty to warn, or a host's duty to warn that photography will be happening.

Well generally, the girls are wearing 3bayas, and I'll stay away from those that have guys around them. Don't want to get beaten up! Would it still be dishonorable if the girl was in proper attire at these events?

I tried to use you're tactic of asking before shooting. I'd just shout to the crowd “Hi guys, I'll be taking a picture for the event DVD” *click*. People were a lot more receptive!

I don't envy that. Took a wrong turn once when leaving the bride's room during a Saudi wedding shoot and ended up in the women's section. At that point, 2 things happened.

1) Eyes popped out of sockets. Never expected Saudi women to be dressed like that.

2) I was tackled by the wait staff (who were men too, but apparently servants are asexual), and kicked out out the nearest door.

At least I didn't get lynched.

Well, mostly I get cold icy glares. I hate it when girls do that The rudeness is definitely there too. Never been shouted at.

And I would never shout at a girl… that's just downright cowardly…

I hat to say this, but I'm more comfortable taking shots of white women too. At least they don't give you icy glares when they refuse you taking their pictures (which is rare in itself).

Why can't I just get a smile from somebody when being told to delete their photos. I *am* doing them a favor. And I do not work for them.

But you're right.. it should be the host's task to inform the guests. I'll put that in the agreement contract next time

I think it's pretty mean to take pictures of somebody without informing them that you intend to sell it to them later. But the majority of western tourist traps are guilty of that one. From rollercoaster rides to famous landmarks.

And they're overpriced too!

the male bouncers/wait staff, were they Saudis? (-?-)

dont guilt trip too much…
its a social thing…the girls might be there without their parents knowing cos parents here wont ask why who when, they'll just judge you for being in Aramco, or bahrain or at 'mixed' gathering….not attention, they probably dont wanna be seen….
second aspect to the social thing is the fact that they fear the Shabaab…if a shabaab gets his … Read morehand on a digital picture of said girl..God knows how he'll use photoshop to make himself her husband/boyfriend/son…..and this is a close knit very small society/city…meaning news will travel fast even if the evil shabab is just doin it to showoff to friends….

ethical way of dealin with it? there is none, if you recognize the girl, delete her pic, and if you come across another shot of her delete that…i.e. dont go searchin every pic for her, (delete the one she wanted deleted) but dont ignore the pic if you see it
also, recognize here paranoia and be at ease with yourself cos i'm sure the pose or the angle you've taken esp with abaya will be very hard to photoshop and low chances her parents will see her…..so yeah, dont guilt trip too much…

but true bout them being told beforehand bout pics being taken…they should know…

My guess… Bengalis

Man, I missed so many posts, what happened to your rss thing? something messed up, and I added you again, now I have two nidals, one with the old posts one with the new.

Ok, I can only speak for mice-elf there is a fear, a deep rooted fear that some photo manipulation might happen, which did happen a long time ago when photoshop meant an actual shop, I've heard stories, and heard threats being made.

An office mate who was from the remote area I was working at, asked me how do women get passports, when I got to the part “you give them a photo of your wife” he looked at me like I said there is no god… and went on saying that the guys that make the passport will see her picture and might distribute it… I looked at him with half an eye and said bluntly “man, you are not that handsome and you are not even rich, so I assume your wife is no miss universe besides all the p0rn online is available to anyone, why would they look at a picture of a woman's face, and only her face?” he proceeded to give me explanations as to why it would me desirable and all… but I concluded that because the guy at the passport office might be another relative who knows him… then he would know what his wife looked like and all that… total BS in my opinion… but I respect it none the less… in Australia any TV program with images of deceased aboriginal people starts with a warning… I respect that also, even though I do not get it…

Oh well, you can't do what you love (photography) and expect it to be all smooth sailing… something has to come up, nothing is ever that easy.

Learn what boxers do when they get a punch in the gut, read up on that

Man I should've made a post out of this… I might do that

True, I'm not good at the icy glare–better at the smouldering look! Check out Blogging & Ethics Part II on Tara's blog:
http://taraummomar.blogspot.com/2009/10/bloggin…

Your photophobics have been a revelation to me about Saudi as opposed to other MENA cultures, and also the professional challenges for a photographer.

It is a good idea to have it written into the agreement with the wedding host that he will inform guests of your role, and also write in that you are not responsible for what happens to the photos later (at least in North America you would be rolled in to any legal proceedings, even in Canada which is less litigious–they name everyone and their Aunt Petunia first and then choose who to nail later), although you do your best to not offend in the way you take photos.

That is the only Moroccan wedding I have attended where such a sales option happened, so it may have been to offset his low or non-fee. I didn't mind him selling the photos so much as the “arnaquer la blanche” “rip off the European” sales style, and that I wasn't “allowed” to just not buy the photos at all for fear of offending family, who were in an unusually culturally sensitive mood at the time. Not the moment to say, “Do you have any idea how much time I've spent in Morocco, and how many weddings I've attended?”.

Oh yes, the “trappo touristico”, is alive and well everywhere. It is probably more flagrant towards people who dress well habitually, and don't put on their student duds for travelling. LOL

I changed website design, and it apparently broke the old rss feed. If you were subscribed to the feedproxy feed it should have been seamless :s

It's true what you say, there should be no reason why a woman's face should be protected given the prevalence of much more obscene images for someone with an internet connection and half a brain. It is more of a culturally ingrained sense of privacy I would assume.

Boxers… punched in gut… (taking notes). I'm more afraid that doing something wrong will someday cause a photographer to get punched in the gut. And there are no rules for what photographers do when we punched in the gut (There was no section in my camera manual).

I assume I'll just drop and curl around my camera to prevent it from damage ;P

Interesting point. I've come across this when taking pics in an Arab country. I was at a mosque and wanted to take a picture of the ceiling, the chandelier, the carvings in the marble and such and I've always had women come over and warn me not to take their pictures. I find it annoying to say the least. I know they wouldn't really bother if I was an Arab. But being a non-Arab Muslim automatically means I need guidance. I felt like telling them in a firm tone that I wouldn't want to take a picture of them anyway. I just resort to saying, I wont and then turn away from them.

I suppose if they can warn me, being a hijabi in an uncrowded mosque taking pictures of the walls, they can certainly target you as a suspicious person.