Courtship and Marriage in Pakistan

Great post that really helps understand the process, and from a variety of perspectives: more and less traditional, the Hindu cultural influences, Islamic religion vs culture, and applicability to other traditional societies.

“Supervised dating” is the most accurate term, but I think the more common polite form is “chaperoned dating”. In my experience there is often a variant of what is called in the West “group dating”. In the West “group dating” is common among tweens and some teens, ie, the whole group goes out and the romantic couples only date within that context not separate from the group, just clearly demarcated within the group. It is common to meet people while out in a group but at older ages, especially uni the couples usually date separately from the group as well. In some traditional cultures which are not too rigid, like Moroccan, this type of group dating is a way that “love matches” form and the couple sees each other until they are ready to marry, and then the girl goes and tells her father that a guy will be coming for her hand in marriage and she wants to marry “that one”, and the father usually agrees, or the girl cries and pleads a little, and he caves.

The more common and more traditional variant is what I would call “family dating”; ie, both families get together for social events, visits, even vacations, and then everyone gets to know everyone and build bonds, and the couple get time together in the family group and with chaperoned strayings from the group. And now I am having flashbacks to my BIL's courtship, and a rather unpleasant (for me) day at the pool/beach. Yeah, they saw each other in bathing suits–but this was Morocco, and the bathing suits were relatively modest, and modest girls throw on a t-shirt and throw a towel over their legs. Oh and they had had an official and very public engagement prior to that, with a big celebration. And then there are Canadian women in bikinis. But the unpleasant was more the psycho-socio-cultural, uh…you know.. girl dynamics that men either don't see or pretend not to so they don't have to “discuss” it. And yes, they continue to this day! Same ones! Same Y chromosome pseudo-obliviousness.

Anyway, back to Desis (or “Day-sees” as some of us recently learned to pronounce it from a desi friend). My Desi patients are the ones who teach me about courtship and marriage “back home” and in the immigrant community here. It seems relatively similar across religions. The arranged ones are usually done by “Desi Aunties”, mothers, sisters, grannies, dragging around and showing to any potential mate's Aunties, mother, sisters, grannies, the official “I am ready to get married” photo. Even the ones who are here and joining in the dating scene, or even trying speed dating ( ) have their official “I am ready to get married” head shot circulating. Some children have the same photos of their parents from when they were courting or looking to be courting. These usually wind up with family meetings, seeing each other a few times, or importing a bride/groom from “home”.

On the other hand, many see me because they already found their “love match” (a phrase they taught me) on campus, who is of course the wrong religion, caste, ethnicity (north-south verrrrry bad), profession, what not. Mostly their parents will kill them when they find out, and what are they supposed to do because they are in loooooove. Some want advice on how to flirt with and date “white boys”. I guess I really should tell them how totally incompetent I was at that. And then there are the guys who want help flirting and dating with anyone but “white girls” are included. Seriously, following the advice of your brother who just got out of jail is probably not a good idea, and other than that, please explain your slang before I say something that will cause you to blush to death.

Speaking of which…no never mind.

Then there are the ones who married the partner they organized their sisters to find them, and they are not so happy (I said find me an MD and they did, but then when I saw her she was older, and I couldn't back out). The newly arrived want to have find a love match “like the ones back home who go to university”, but they have no dating experience, and don't know how “challenging” it can be. One was prey to a Desi-Canadian he met online, and he thought they had “an understanding” and she was well, more Canadian 17ish, didn't twig to the understanding (ie that they were engaged to be married, even though they hadn't met yet) and was dating for real. One of my better psychotherapy hours I must say–cured him of the little hussy, and sent him out happy and confident again.

What makes you think I make Desi Auntie jokes? Desi Aunties are no laughing matter! They are a serious threat–just look at your picture of them! How many times have I warned you to be careful? told you that you are too young to die? fretted when you are in Pakistan that they got you and are holding you in communicado until you agree to marry the ugly stepsister? No no, I have great respect for Desi Aunties…they are a lot like little Italian nonne (grannies), always making sure the over 21's are safely, legally, religiously, paired off!

Another great post! Looking forward to the future ones and the pics!

I'll be hiring u for my wedding….whenever that is

I do wish that you would have gone more in detail about “love marriages” which are more and more common, as well as marriages of desi families in the West, and the challenges that those bring, cause at times, some Western values are also integrated

PS: “It should be noted that the majority of what I write here is from personal experiences (of OTHER people’s weddings, thank you)”
does this mean ur still single?

Sadly I'm not single. I'm involved in an abusive relationship which has turned complicated on Facebook. Bit I still do love him so very much *swoons*.

Talking about love marriages would need a whole post in of itself and I might do something like that soon! There are some shared challenges for all desi families living in foreign countries and I can certainly relate living in Saudi Arabia. Actually, if you've got time after your finals, we could collaborate on this. Maybe start small, list a few points we'd like to talk about

There's really a lot in here if you start delving into it. Even as someone from the culture (or perhaps because of it), I'm surprised at the intricacies of the process and how people trade religion and openness for the cultural need for protection of both honor and shield from emotional stress.

I have heard of chaperoned dating common in some western cultures as well. Perhaps conservative Christians? Seeing someone outside the norms defined of culture always brings difficulty when you need to rejoin the mainstream. Pleading with family is common in Pakistani societies as well. Once a couple likes each other, the guy will throw tantrums at home and she will at hers, bullying the families into meeting

I think the thing about girl dynamics is that though men might notice them, they can't always understand them. But I think that goes for both sexes!

I think the usual dynamic in for desis in western cultures (or those that have been liberalized to a certain extent) is that while they will keep looking for themselves, they're not ready to let go of the possibility that their parents will find someone for them. Lets be honest here, it beats the “I'll get married to you if I'm single at 35″ insurance policy ;P

I'm hearing the term 'love match' myself for the first time As I said before, moving from western culture back into mainstream desi culture can always be problematic. Marrying someone of a different ethnicity is usually viewed in a bad light. In fact, until my generation in our family, marrying someone outside the extended family was seen as a bad thing. This is slowly changing but still very common. I always thought the benefits of natural selection would evolve cultures to seek diversity rather than shun it.

I find it hilarious people come to ask for flirting advice Ahem, anyone looking for advice on hitting on Desi guys? ;P “Speaking of which…” Oh come on! You can't say that and not tell me!!

Interactions between FOB (Fresh off the Boat) Desis and more acclimatized ones are always interesting. In more conservative Pakistani cultures, telling someone you like them constitutes a promise to marry. And usually families will have the guy and girl in question married to each other if steamy letters are caught ;P There is still a wide gap between western Desi and “at home” liberal Desi cultures, mostly because westernization in Desi countries is more incorporated rather than adopted.

And admittedly, all desis love aunties as well. It's just the current generation's fun thing to do, acting like we run away from aunties and yet at the same time making sure they see our best sides

lol, thats hilarious you noticed about Ali Zafar. Might I just add that he's not necessarily premature? Maybe it was the wedding was? ;P

aish hada ya walad! fain al photos!
P.S. lovely post!

I'm sorry dear, coming up ;P

(Thanks!)

aww ur such a sweetheart *hug*

Interesting how you frame the traditional matching practice as a shielding from emotional stress because it does shield from the agony and ecstasy of dating but also has its challenges. Even though one gives one's consent, family pressure to marry a certain person can be far greater than in Western or non-traditional cultures.

I haven't heard of chaperoned dating in Western cultures except among the very young and that is more in a parentally accompanied group situation. Then again, I don't know that many highly conservative Christians, though the ones I do know are raising their son's child while he and his girlfriend finish high school, each living in their parental homes, with the baby going between the 2 sets of grandparents' homes on a weekly or bi-weekly basis (like joint custody in a divorce). Rather Sarah Palinish really!

I agree that the dynamics may be noticed but not fully understood and that both sexes have more trouble reading the dynamics of the other. It is one of the reasons that psychiatrists make more reliable diagnoses of personality disorders within their own gender–they aren't blinded by hormonal responses to the seductive, they see the nuances of attitude, thought, and behaviour, and they are less likely to pass the abnormal off as normal.

I agree with you that there is an insurance policy in having such a matchmaking system for the unlucky in dating, and it does probably beat the “I'll marry you if we are both still single at 35″. That is part of how I restored the poor shattered Desi who thought that he was engaged to the Desi-Canadian. I reminded him his family would have no trouble finding him a match in his home country, given his personal attributes, university degree, job and Canadian passport–essentially repeating back to him what he had told me but in a way such that he perceived his advantages and insurance policy. The other was to nicely point out to him that this girl was not an appropriate match as she didn't share his same ideas of commitment, and that she had obviously “gone Canadian”. It probably didn't hurt that when he made a statement, and caught himself before he added the “inshallah”, I said it for him!

Do share your advice for hitting on Desi guys! I am sure many would be interested, and as you know, you and Nadal have a great number of fans on blogs

Moving back into the mainstream culture from the Westernized one is fraught, both because of individual desires and lifestyles, and because of who knows what about whom and might tell back home. I am also impressed that the “confidentiality” of relationships is inverse in these Desi dating and Western dating scenes. For example the Desi couples from traditional families but dating each other in the West keep the relationship totally secret from family, far longer, ie far later in to the relationship than Westerners do, and do so more thoroughly. Couples may be living together, planning to marry, sexually active, have already had an oops and a “miscarriage” but haven't told their families or even friends too close to their families a thing ie that the other person exists at all. Westerners may date casually, or steadily, and tell family, but usually let families know by the time they move in together. Of course that is a direct reflection of what is permissible in the culture, and among the families. One of my most shocking psychotherapy sessions was with an Ismaeli woman student who was distressed and fed up that her Ismaeli boyfriend wouldn't let her use birth control methods (an no condom either) but was so paranoid she would get pregnant that he made her have a blood pregnancy test every month (involving her going to the clinic for a brief medical appt and blood draw. She wanted either to stop the sexual activity or use birth control but he wouldn't accept either option. At least they were at low risk for STDs. Mind boggling from the MD psychiatrist's chair though–and that after she vented for a half hour she decided to continue the relationship as it was.

The Westernized at home vs living in the West is very distinct and takes some by surprise when they realized that the West is a lot more Westernized than they experienced in the Westernized milieu of their at home.

Yes Ali Zafar's marriage may have been premature or by dates post-mature–how do you say “shotgun wedding” in Urdu? or would it be “marriage by the sword”? LOL
OR, but we are engaged, time is fleeting, men have urges, we could die tomorrow, … LOL

Theres a lot thats been said about social pressure to get married to a person picked out by family. And even in chaperoned dating in Pakistan, it should be understood that to let the 'kids' get to this point (or say beyond the first few meetings), the families already approve of the match and would already consent to a marriage. As such, long term dating is not possible in Desi cultures (without engagements/nikahs) as the pressure to commit becomes too great beyond month 1.

You must admit, however, that being an MD psychiatrist, it exposes you to a certain bias in terms of the 'interestingness' of couples that you do meet. Listening to a lot of Dr. Laura on the radio before heading to the US, I expected every American family to have serious dysfunctional issues. Turned out most people are pretty normal As such, I would argue that being sexually active, at least to the point of actual (or “I do it Normal!”) sex, before marriage is rare for Pakistani couples.

The case of the Ismaeli woman does seem strange. Not being allowed to use birth control (which I assume was because he morally objected to it?) yet at the same time breaking cultural 'laws' does seem like something very ironic. Not to mention a pretty terrible thing to do to another person. How exactly would he react if he actually did conceive with her? Perhaps the greatest failing of conservative cultures is that they dont equip people with the necessary knowhow of what to do when they do go past cultural/religious taboos. They'd teach you “Don't drink alcohol”, but leave out “If you do drink, don't drive” or “Don't have sex, but if you do, use a condom”. One may be for your own protection, the other is for society's.

As for hitting on Desi guys. I may not exactly be an expert in the matter, though bringing one chai may have a lot to do with it ;P

To be honest, AK-47s are more common in Pakistan than either shotguns or swords. So a 'Kalashnikov Wedding' would be closer to the mark. That said, I doubt we use the phrase in Urdu And to let Ali Zafar off the hook, he had been seeing the girl in the wedding for years, and had intended to marry her for a long time He's one of the good ones in this regard I guess

Thanks for the expanded information on the chaperoned dating. It sounds very much like the situation my BIL had, ie huge public formal engagement commitment, then family dating with the occasional chaperoned departing from the group, eg a walk on the beach with her younger sister along and all three visible from afar by the families.

Yes I am well aware that there is a high degree of selection of who sees a psychiatrist, though it includes far more normal people (especially in a uni clinic) than some would guess ie they have a normal need, no one else to turn to, or an illness (even very mild and highly treatable) and have the insight and psychological courage to seek appropriate help. I also know some information from students and friends–again a self-selected group. Part of the training involves expecting the skew. So I know most people in all cultures are normal, and that not all Ismaelis behave as these 2 did, and not all Indian Hindu Canadian MEng's have a north-south booty call on Thursday, and nothing more.

Interesting point about the moral permissibility of birth control when one has already broken the taboo against premarital sex, and the not knowing how to go about negotiating safely the verboten. Birth control methods are permissible in Islam (for legally Islamically married couples), though about 10% follow the papal “once sperm hits egg you are done for” edict. However, using birth control implies intention, and intentions are important, as you know. I think the issue was more in that vein, yet not fully understood by the guy, nor articulated. She was tired of the anxiety, the conflict about it, and having a monthly blood draw (he didn't trust the urine testing), but she felt better after venting. Often people's lives would be simpler if they had better adaptability and knowledge about the middle ground on most issues. Which reminds me of…oh REALLY never mind on that one…better I should make readers blush to death on my own blog!

DR LAURA??!!! DR LAURA??!!! You felt the need for a harping Jewish mother? All those Desi Aunties, and you wanted a yiddisha mama? OY GEVALT! I am verklempt! Poor bubbala, mishegoss! I'd have my sister serve you chai while you listened together, but alas she won't let me drink it in her home…it is the most verboten of the weird, according to her, things I consume.

I am sure Ali and bride are most honorable, and the wee bairn was a premie, after a very successful honeymoon of doing it NORMAL! .

lol @ the pics & the discussion between you and Chiara. I wouldn't necessarily see Ali zafar as good if he couldn't even wait till after the wedding. Terrible really. But then we are just surmising so perhaps it's better not to do that.
What I've generally noticed about Muslim guys who go around sleeping prior to marriage, they usually don't marry the girls they sleep with. On the contrary, they want to marry “good”girls even though they have rubbish morals.
Khair, I think it should be mentioned that there is a wide variety in the way a marriage would be planned among Desis. From being completely Islamic and having a very simple nikkah and walima – the 2 requirements for an Islamic wedding. To a completely cultural wedding where the 2 Islamic events remain constant but there is singing, dancing, and events after events. Probably the more rich the families, the more elaborate the events, which again depends on the religiousness of the families involved.
As for courting, it again depends on the religiousness of the families and children involved. Less religious/cultural couples tend to take the path of regular Westernized dating. The more cultural families allow their children more freedom after the engagement even though technically the couple still need to maintain haya and distance. Once the nikkah has been performed, Islamically, the couple are free to be alone but culturally many families do not allow the freedom until after the walima is over.
Also, I wouldn't actually refer to the interaction between the couples in the “getting to know each other” phase as supervised dating. Islamically, it is not allowed for the couple to be alone with one another so as long as the meetings are under supervision, it's allowed. But yes, it's usually never completely supervised.
Good post nonetheless.

[...] | View Comments This is a continuation of my series of posts on Pakistani weddings. Check out Courtship and Marriage in Pakistan and The Dholki and Mayoon for the first two [...]

I did a similar Pakistani wedding series, covering mendhi's, the nikkah, baraat, waleema and makhlawa! When you write it down it seems like a lot, but at the actual events its fun

Thanks for stopping by Sumera! I had to run a google search for makhlawa and interestingly you're webpage was the first result! Reading through your posts right now!

You're right about there being a lot more here than we realize. I expected a short talk on the process but then realized how complicated it could get!

[...] from Saudi Arabia’s freelance photographer Nidal M. He recently created a series of post on Pakistani weddings. We are hoping to share the entire series with you here as well, but for now, check out his work on [...]

[...] posts (for relevance, in case you missed them!) Courtship and Marriage in Pakistan The Dholki and the Mayoon The [...]

[...] have it folks, Weddings in Pakistan! If you missed any of the previous posts, here they all are: Courtship and Marriage in Pakistan The Dholki and the Mayoon The Mehendi The Shaadi The Walima Hope you enjoyed them! Do share your [...]

pakistanis use women in the western world for sex and survival and take all their money and return to pakistan to marry a virgin and give them all the luxuries. shame on all paki men they should not even pray or practice their religion cuz they are users to western women. they should remain in their own worthless islamic country and live their lowlife culture.

Hi Nidal,

Thank you to interpreted the detail of Pak marriage to us!!! I really love to read it!

I’m having problem falling in love with a Pakistani, and I’m so helpless don’t know what to do. Writing my story down here, I’m hoping that maybe you or any of the Muslims stumble

Actually I’m now in love with a Pak man who’s in his PHD program abroad in my country. We’ve been dating for almost an year. He’s a very devout, conservative Muslim. He even doesn’t drink with the same straw with me while we’re eating together (cause I would be eating something not HALAL). 

As our love is becoming stronger, I found it hurts me a lot. He’s keeping me secret and always puts lots of limitations whiting our date. We fight for that often, but God knows I really don’t want to hurt him. I know he’s been struggling very much becoz of me and can’t even focus on his study, can’t sleep….. What can I do? I just want a normal boyfriend, a serious and promising companion, am I wrong?
I’m an Asian Christian, and willing to convert to Muslim–although he never ask me to. He thinks that our relationship is very very unacceptable for his family, and he would be disowned. He ever tried to joke to his bro and parents that maybe he’d get a girl here (my country) and get married. The response of his family is extremely negative and say “not even think of it”. His family has very strong bond with each other. He talks to his family every day. I respect that. But why it’s so difficult for the Pak ppl to accept a foreigner? oh, FYI, I think not even the foreigners, but all the girls that not arranged by his parents. I searched on the internet and ppl said that Pak family would never love you as they love their ppl, even if you behave like a modest Muslim women, they just never open their heart to you. My bf said that he could tell his parents about me, but I know what would happen next–I don’t even want to imagine it. I want neither he breakup with his family nor me!!!
so what can I do? I would make every effort for it…. Thanks for spending your time on reading this stuff, it may sound just another story again for you, but it’s real in my life, and tortures both of us every day and night ….  Thank you ..

thank you.. im reserching tradition and irish too,..some similarities believe or not..very good.thank u.xx

why convrt?cant u love each other for who u are..i hope it works out for u, but u need a good talk with him ..if u both adults and in love , all will be ok .x

Hi daisy Iam also an Asian and a christian girl, I feel what you feel and I got interest of your story….for us women it hurts a lot but dont loose hope I heard a story like with yours and the pak guy married a filipina girl even he was disowned by his family….now they live in dubai and have 2 children if im not mistaken….So just pray that your Bf is brave and will fight for you…Just pray girl!!!

Hi,
I wanted to ask you a question, this is a starting point and am confused.
The boys family is coming to meet me for the first time in a few days time.
I’m Pakistani and so is he. How do I present myself.. What clothes shall i wear and how would you advise me to cover my hair. Should I wear heavy makeup or should I just stay simple
Thanks in advance.
Fareeda

Hi,
I wanted to ask you a question, this is a starting point and am confused.
The boys family is coming to meet me for the first time in a few days time.
I’m Pakistani and so is he. How do I present myself.. What clothes shall i wear and how would you advise me to cover my hair. Should I wear heavy makeup or should I just stay simple
Thanks in advance.